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Risking My Life To Settle A Physics Debate

Veritasium
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Even some physics professors say this craft breaks the laws of physics. This video is sponsored by Kiwico, For 50% off your first month of any subscription crate from KiwiCo (available in 40 countries!) head to www.kiwico.com/Veritasium50

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A HUGE thanks to Rick and Neil for letting me drive Blackbird. Check out Rick's JPvid Channel for more in depth videos and explanations on going faster than the wind downwind -- ve42.co/Rick

Gene Nagata made the shoot possible. If you’re a video nerd like me, check out his channel, Potato Jet: jpvid.net/u-PotatoJetf... .

Xyla Foxlin for made the model cart used in this video. Xyla builds amazing things like rockets and canoes, check it out! jpvid.net/u-xylafoxlin

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References
Jack Goodman's JPvid video -- ve42.co/Goodman
Rick's treadmill footage -- ve42.co/Treadmill
Rick's multiple explanations of how Blackbird works -- ve42.co/DDWFTTW
Forum discussions -- ve42.co/forum Blog -- ve42.co/blog1 and retraction ve42.co/BlogRetraction

Gaunaa, M., Øye, S., & Mikkelsen, R. F. (2009). Theory and design of flow driven vehicles using rotors for energy conversion. In EWEC 2009 Proceedings online EWEC

Md. Sadak Ali Khan, Syed Ali Sufiyan, Jibu Thomas George, Md. Nizamuddin Ahmed. Analysis of Down-Wind Propeller Vehicle. International Journal of Scientific and Research Publications, 3, 4. (April 2013) ISSN 2250-3153. (www.ijsrp.org)

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Special thanks to Patreon supporters: Bill Linder, Paul Peijzel, Crated Comments, Anna, Mac Malkawi, Michael Schneider, Oleksii Leonov, Jim Osmun, Tyson McDowell, Ludovic Robillard, Jim buckmaster, fanime96, Juan Benet, Ruslan Khroma, Robert Blum, Richard Sundvall, Lee Redden, Vincent, Marinus Kuivenhoven, Alfred Wallace, Arjun Chakroborty, Joar Wandborg, Clayton Greenwell, Pindex, Michael Krugman, Cy 'kkm' K'Nelson, Sam Lutfi, Ron Neal

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Thanks to James Lincoln for building the initial prototypes for a model blackbird.

Written by Derek Muller, James Lincoln, and Petr Lebedev
Animation by Mike Radjabov and Iván Tello
Filmed by Gene Nagata, Derek Muller, Trenton Oliver, AJ Fillo and Emily Zhang
Edited by Trenton Oliver
Music from Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.com
Additional video supplied by Getty Images
Produced by AJ Fillo

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2021/05/28

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Veritasium
Veritasium 7 ヶ月 前
If you want more detail on the explanation here it is: 1. The car is powered only by the wind. There is no motor or batteries of any kind. 2. The propeller does NOT spin like a windmill. The wind does NOT push it and make it turn. 3. Instead the wheels are geared to the propeller to turn it the opposite way, like a fan, so it pushes air backwards. 4. To start the vehicle the wind simply pushes on the whole vehicle (like a block of styrofoam) and gets it moving. 5. The wheels are turning so they turn the propeller in the opposite direction to how the wind is pushing it. 6. The prop is pushing air back so air pushes the prop forwards, accelerating the car. 7. Once you get up to wind speed there is no apparent wind on the vehicle. If the prop were spun like a windmill this would mean no more thrust. But, since the prop is operating like a fan, it still accelerates air backwards, generating thrust. 8. You can go faster than wind speed continuously because even when going faster than the wind, the prop can still accelerate air backwards (in the car's frame of reference) generating thrust. In a stationary frame of reference you would see that the wind behind the propellor is slower than the surrounding air. So it's clear that the energy is coming from the wind. FAQ: If power is coming from the wheels to turn the prop, why doesn't that slow down the wheels more than it gets the prop to push back? A: Because the wheels are moving over the ground much faster than the prop is moving through the air (because there's a tailwind). Example: Let's say the car is going 12m/s in a 10m/s tailwind, so faster than the wind (note the prop will be moving through an apparent headwind of 2m/s). Power = Force x Velocity Let's say the chain applies a drag force of 100N on the wheels to drive the prop. This means we're taking power from the wheels = FxV = 100N x 12m/s = 1200W If we apply this power to the fan, it can create a force of F = P/V = 1200W / 2m/s = 600N Admittedly I've assumed no losses, but even if we waste half the power, we'd still get 300N of thrust which is more than the 100N of drag the prop adds to the wheels. The key is that we're harvesting power at higher speed, lower force, and deploying it at lower speed, higher force (which is only possible because we have a tailwind - in still air this wouldn't work because the relative velocity of the wheels over the ground would be exactly the same as the relative velocity of the prop through the air).
Mgm GranTT
Mgm GranTT ヶ月 前
Are there any academics who publicly proofed them wrong after the publications of this video.
Bubba Hottep
Bubba Hottep ヶ月 前
@OficjalnyKrwiopijca I'm thinking there's only one source of energy there- the wind. Interestingly, when scientists measured the air pressure on the top side of an airplane wing,they did not find a vacuum there. It was not a bernoulli vacuum creating lift, but the action/reaction from "throwing" a buttload of air molecules down that caused the airplane to fly.
Bubba Hottep
Bubba Hottep ヶ月 前
@greenkid336600 or else they kludged together their cart from available materials and used the rear sprocket from a bicycle and put the chain on whichever one fit. 😬
Ben Dowding
Ben Dowding ヶ月 前
I imagine the air and ground like two treatmills moving side by side at different speeds. You choose to stand on one, coupling yourself to it, and then you can extract energy from the other treadmill moving relative to you. The car isn't couple to the ground because of the low friction wheels, but is coupled to the air because it's a big luff body. Then the gears in the wheels extract some energy from the ground, but pushing it forward. The gearing makes this mechanically possible, like in the spool riddle.
John Nelson
John Nelson 2 ヶ月 前
@Veritasium , So after reading this several times, I thought about a mass of the body perpetuating this nominal speed and briefly considered a sail , however, a sail would create a “limit“ to the overall speed gain.
Potato Jet
Potato Jet 8 ヶ月 前
Sending this video to my mom! She’ll be so proud of me..... for once.....
totallyrad
totallyrad ヶ月 前
@nipuna athukorala what the heck?
BarioIDL
BarioIDL ヶ月 前
mom: we don't do that here
Miguel Guzmán-Centeno
I'm proud of you and I'm not even your mom! Great work!
M
M 2 ヶ月 前
Can one break wind, going faster then the wind, powered by the wind.
Cringe
Cringe 2 ヶ月 前
Should’ve become a lawyer/doctor buddy
Levent K********
Levent K******** 5 ヶ月 前
"If I want to slow down at the end, I pull it back. Right?" Famous last words.
seeker101
seeker101 ヶ月 前
It reminded me of an Abbott & Costello sketch; "Go ahead, back up."
Uh Kimboze
Uh Kimboze ヶ月 前
No replies to this comment, I’ll be the first.
Sweney
Sweney 4 ヶ月 前
the cylindrical sail boat model was genius
marks100000
marks100000 29 日 前
The more important take away is that he proved the world is a cylinder. Wait until the flat Earthers here about this development.
Sam H
Sam H ヶ月 前
@Michael Aigner it is the way the sail as a whole is shaped when the wind blows into it, making it shaped like a wing. And that way the air takes longer around the front of the sail than around the back. Pulling it forward, exactly like the rounded shape of the top of a wing pulls the airplane upwards. That's why sailing vessels can also go up unto 45 degrees against the wind faster than the wind, because they are being pulled by shape of the sail, and once the angle is too small the sail is not held in position by the airflow anymore, collapses and they come to a halt.
Michael Aigner
Michael Aigner ヶ月 前
@Sam H Sorry, but i think you are wrong.A thin sailing canvas has nothing to do with an thick airplane wing. In fact the sail can also be a completely flat plate and you can still sail faster than the wind.
Samuel Ferrer
Samuel Ferrer ヶ月 前
And so the name choice
Sam H
Sam H ヶ月 前
@Michael Aigner in the case of the boats going faster than the wind the shape of the sail acts as a wing, kind of pulling the boat forwards. Being faster than the wind creates a low pressure area behind the sail/wing in which the air from in front of the sail/wing is sucked into, and therefore creating thrust. Edit: it actually creates a high pressure are behind and low pressure in front which pulls everything. Which makes a whole lot more sense now.
ExcitedPunch
ExcitedPunch 2 ヶ月 前
The cut from two sailboats to the prop was beautiful.
Ryan Bach
Ryan Bach 4 ヶ月 前
I love that this vehicle only exists because of argumentative nerds on internet forums. It's still breaking my brain a little, but it's starting to make sense. It reminds me of the proposed Alcubierre Drive, which would bend spacetime so it contracts ahead of the ship and expands behind it, essentially generating a wave out in front of the craft where the 'flow' of spacetime gets it from A to B quicker - or as an outside observer would see it, the ship moves faster. Of course, with no exotic matter involved, we can't do that with the fabric of reality itself just yet, but it's pretty cool that we can more or less do it with wind! And somewhat humbling to realize that you don't even have to look beyond the most seemingly intuitive concepts in Newtonian mechanics - like matter transferring energy to other matter by bumping into it - to find some weird edge cases that look like sorcery until you really think about it. As a couple guest stars on one of the more delightfully silly episodes of Deep Space Nine put it: you can't break the laws of physics, but you can bend them! Incidentally, that show also features an episode about building and piloting an experimental sail craft to prove its naysayers wrong. And Alcubierre himself was inspired by the original Star Trek and its warp drives. Hmm. Too bad the luminiferous aether theory didn't pan out or this whole space travel thing would be a lot easier...
Yash Aggarwal
Yash Aggarwal 4 日 前
@Ryan Bach now when I think it back I got it. Well it was fun chatting with you but can you tell how much old you are regarding my guess😚😙
Yash Aggarwal
Yash Aggarwal 4 日 前
@Ryan Bach I don't really get it all😒 Could you simplify it a bit for me😅😁
Ryan Bach
Ryan Bach 4 日 前
@Yash Aggarwal it’s impossible for us to know where the edge of the universe is, or if it has one at all. It’s not obligated to make sense to us. What we can say is that the observable universe (the part light has had time to reach us from) is billions of light years across and about equally full of stuff in all directions. The entire universe could be only slightly bigger, it could be way bigger but still finite, or it could be infinite. All we can say more or less for sure is that it’s no smaller than that.
Yash Aggarwal
Yash Aggarwal 4 日 前
@Ryan Bach and if you are experienced then try giving answer to one of my questions (although this question is from when I was in 6th grade) it is simple tell me where is the end of universe (seems quite easy) but I m asking complete and and let you said it is our galaxy(just let for once) then there is something outside it too And this thing will apply to whatever you say infacte after observable universe So now tell me where is end and if you say it is endless, Then that doesn't makes any sense.
Yash Aggarwal
Yash Aggarwal 4 日 前
@Ryan Bach bro (don't know if I should use bro because you seem a 40-50 years old or near to it) I m just 16 and planning the career in astrophysics so yeah I'm not experienced at all in comparison to you but that was just a funny comment and about knowledge (I have gathered a big chunk as well by this internet thing you were discussing above)(😂😂)??
TimeBucks
TimeBucks 8 ヶ月 前
the two boats on a cylinder acting like a propeller! That's amazing
Bruce Stewart
Bruce Stewart ヶ月 前
That helped me to get a grip on this more than anything else since I used to sail sailboats.
lx
lx 2 ヶ月 前
i dont get the connection, can someone explain?
Md. Saif Ullah
Md. Saif Ullah 2 ヶ月 前
@Papa Legba Well, since you are so adamant on convincing everybody that there is a motor in it, then I guess it's your turn to prove that he is wrong by building an actual one without the "hidden electric motor" and showing that this cannot be achieved...
Esmio06
Esmio06 2 ヶ月 前
@smyrnianlink exactly what i was thinking. Why go through that whole tacking description to use a completely unrelated solution... Still cool though
M
M 3 ヶ月 前
@Papa Legba Also, I kinda gotta get this detail for the sake of character development, do you actually believe in voodoo or not? Was brought up twice but I'm just left on the edge of my seat here
Walter
Walter 5 ヶ月 前
This idea is like something you'd see from a cartoon, "stick a fan on the car, it'll be faster". Who said watching cartoons is useless.
christos kallinikos
christos kallinikos 3 ヶ月 前
Check the F1 car of BRABHAM back in 1979.The BRABHAM BT46B
DD Andrews
DD Andrews 3 ヶ月 前
It most certainly can. Just not practical to carry a fan on top of a car. :)
Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones 3 ヶ月 前
See Mythbusters for that one.
Tim Stout
Tim Stout 5 ヶ月 前
I thought the same thing. Like something Wile E. Coyote would do.🙂
Patrick Dorpmund
Patrick Dorpmund 2 ヶ月 前
congrats to all the dudes who DID remain civil in their comments. it does a lot of good to us all in those troubled times - oh and congrats to all the team !
BobTheTrueCactus
BobTheTrueCactus 5 ヶ月 前
I absolutely love it! I think the concept is not overly complicated, yet it is still somehow difficult to wrap your head around. It really shows how our intuition can fool us. Now imagine what a hard time we had if the system was way more complex with more relevant factors to take into consideration. The fact that even professors have troubles with the concept is just an icing on the cake. I hope they watch it and learn their lesson. They might greatly benefit from this in the future if it helps to transform their approaches.
Ben Dowding
Ben Dowding ヶ月 前
For me it helps to think about the air and ground. Even when you're moving at the same speed as the wind, there ground is moving underneath you at windspeed, so that's where you can get the energy to power the fan.
Kris McGrath
Kris McGrath 7 日 前
I am thinking about it the same way. It's exploiting the energy gradient between the ground and the moving atmosphere to get up to wind speed, then compounding on that with the 'lift' effect thereafter. I think the real hero will be the one who figures out the maths involved in the transition from sub to super wind speed!
Parjit Khakh
Parjit Khakh 8 ヶ月 前
"If I put two sailboats, that's a prop" that explanation was mind-blowing.
Mladen Gulić
Mladen Gulić 4 日 前
@Lord Quintus b ¹.
Gabriel Marous
Gabriel Marous ヶ月 前
That's when i was like, damn... This guy is smart
DocHolliday
DocHolliday ヶ月 前
Then you could create amazing sailboats and wind cruisers with this idea
Shworn
Shworn 3 ヶ月 前
@metamorphicorder you stated, the representation of the cylindrical “earth” was clumsy and inaccurate. It is not, you just failed to comprehend it
metamorphicorder
metamorphicorder 3 ヶ月 前
@Shworn dude i understand whats happening. Ive never in all my wall of text said it was impossible. I said the model was bunk. Thats it. Its a car that turns blow into spin, into different spin, into different spin, into suck and into blow. Forever and always. It works. The car does what is basically claimed of it. It is powered only by moving air and travels in a straight line faster than the prevailing wind. Read my text.
MaxKellin
MaxKellin 5 ヶ月 前
Hey Derek, thanks for your inspiring video. As I am thinking about the physics behind, I do believe that there has to be a maximum velocity of the system due to the rotor performance. Do you know anything about the theoretical max speed and how to calculate it? Obviously there has to be one, right? 😅
eyytee
eyytee 5 ヶ月 前
max_speed = wind_speed / (1 - overall_efficiency). See the papers linked in the description (AAPT, Drela, Gaunaa).
Dripster
Dripster 3 ヶ月 前
I most of the time don’t get these physics videos but the content he makes just makes it 10times better and that’s what I love about this channel keep up he great work.
JosepCardedeu
JosepCardedeu ヶ月 前
It reminds me the way a heat pump works: it extracts “heat” from cold air, making it colder, in order to warm another air. Here, speed is extracted from some air in order to give it to a solid machine. I ask myself if this could be used in a plane. Instead of wheels, could a turbine be used ? But wait, with no reference point (the soil)...wouldn't it be like trying to do it in stationary air ?
Steve Steele
Steve Steele 5 ヶ月 前
It seems like the gearing that connects the wheels to the propeller are extremely important. It needs to be just right to spin the propeller at the right speed to allow the winds directly behind the propeller to push it.
splitairplane 2
splitairplane 2 14 日 前
Even with the gearing equipment they require power to move if not enough power is suplied it will just idle in a constant speed because as explained as soon it reaches the speed of the wind it would stop supping power and slow down but the way how they built it make it possible to keep accelerating
Mikael Murstam
Mikael Murstam ヶ月 前
there is no magic gear ratio. It just has to spin faster than the wheels I think.
uJustinRee
uJustinRee 7 ヶ月 前
that idea of the cylindrical earth and two sailboats being like a propeller was genius
OhStuma
OhStuma 12 日 前
@someting the guy wasn't saying the earth was cylindrical did u even watch the video clearly states the earth is a sphere it was just his thinking of moving forward faster and it being like a propeller
Zorian Passmore
Zorian Passmore 3 ヶ月 前
@someting lol the term snowflake was invented to make fun of the egos of people like you. Look it up.
Tima Yovyk
Tima Yovyk 6 ヶ月 前
@Fred Krazé ye lol twas a bit of a long one
Tima Yovyk
Tima Yovyk 6 ヶ月 前
@someting the external source of energy is the still air which the vehicle moves through, it pushes against the fan as its velocity increases increasing its velocity further in turn allowing more power to be harnessed from that same still air which in the vehicles frame of reference is moving against it similarly to when you run and feel wind in your face even though there is no such wind. also not to be rude but if you were truly in a high field you would be open to suggestion and be able to listen to others, I would hope you'd be a well mannered person and ofcourse I would assume it wouldn't be so hard to understand where this vehicle gets its excess energy from. if you can explain to me why this is invalid then I would be inclined to believe you, however all you've done in this comment section is annoyingly tell everyone how their wrong and you're right.
Macko Taco
Macko Taco 6 ヶ月 前
@someting ya I'm 100 percent certain your just a troll. I 100 percent don't believe anything you have said about yourself. I honestly don't think you even care about this debate at all I think you just came onto a random video just to fight with people and hope to also win the fights to boost your self esteem. Anyone reading this should stop replying to this person because he just feeds off of the replies. Also the dva girly talk doesn't do it for me. I've seen so many people try to use the dva girly talk to fight with people to the point where it's just so overused. I understand that maybe when you were younger that might have been a really good way to fight someone but times have changed. Call me cupcake or sweetheart or whatever. Your only going to be boosting my self esteem more because I automatically put people who use the dva girly talk below me because they are so predictable. Just stick to calling me a stupid brainwashed conspiracy theorist or whatever that means lol. I'm not going to respond after this because I know you will feed off of any reply and I won't even check if you respond back. Your no that guy dude, your not that guy.
Megan Fleischman
Megan Fleischman 3 ヶ月 前
This video made my day! Just a bunch a guys in the desert having fun and challenging our assumptions, no big deal ❤️
Ethan Krauss
Ethan Krauss 4 ヶ月 前
Derek's videos are fantastic!! I once bet someone that the "Ion Propelled Vehicle" can lift its power supply against gravity. He was amazed when he realized it really works. I'm hoping Derek will take an interest in it as well.
John Brinkman
John Brinkman 3 ヶ月 前
Pretty cool how determined you were to see this through. That said, I loved your comedic response: "Put me in coach." :D
xxxxSylphxxxx
xxxxSylphxxxx ヶ月 前
Wow! I loved this video! I remember being fascinated when I first realised that a sailboat could move faster than the wind, and when watching this I especially loved the replies from people not believing it to work - particularly because I remember feeling the same way about sailing before I understood what was going on! I loved your final explanation btw - where did the energy come from? Well by slowing the wind down! Perfect!
Ivan Miranda
Ivan Miranda 8 ヶ月 前
This is the first time that instead of understanding what you say in the video I just believed you.
al1nonly
al1nonly 5 ヶ月 前
@Chuck McNay how is it a weird flex? do you even know what a flex is? you must not be american and understand what the slang is.
Magus Perdé
Magus Perdé 6 ヶ月 前
Took me weeks to understand
Eragon Baffel
Eragon Baffel 6 ヶ月 前
By that getting faster and increasing the amount of energy to eat through.
Eragon Baffel
Eragon Baffel 6 ヶ月 前
18:58 at the speed of wind it starts eating through the wind energy in front of it.
Star_Nutron
Star_Nutron 6 ヶ月 前
Ditto
Michael Swain
Michael Swain 5 ヶ月 前
The last explanation reminds me a bit of how a heat pump works. It doesn’t make heat but rather removes energy from air outside and pushes it inside while making the outside colder. The propeller does the same, it removes energy from the wind and transfers some of that energy into thrust while slowing the wind behind the propeller. Very cool.
191246mann1
191246mann1 2 ヶ月 前
How the hell can you compare it to a heat pump. anyway while we are talking about these pumps I was thinking over time what will happen to your garden will the grass stop growing .
191246mann1
191246mann1 3 ヶ月 前
@humblejo130 Thank you for your reply I find it interesting how people get excited when they are wrong that blackbird thing was a fake and I don't like people being taken so I explained how it wont work...Thanks anyway.
humblejo130
humblejo130 3 ヶ月 前
@191246mann1 Bro, what are you talking about?... no one is talking about free energy... you obviously did not understand what was read, so you have no business commenting on the subject
191246mann1
191246mann1 3 ヶ月 前
a heat pump is not free energy it uses electric energy you cannot get something for nothing.
humblejo130
humblejo130 4 ヶ月 前
And an air conditioner on the opposite end of the spectrum. Where it takes energy from inside and filled it outside. Same concept, just backwards. Also eventually all of the winds energy will be transfered into propeller if given enough time to accelerate
Stephen Hobrecht
Stephen Hobrecht 21 日 前
Great physics experiment! It reminds me of when my family built a 6 ft kite and found that with wind, we could not hold it back! There is obviously a LOT of energy in wind movement as we see today in wind farms.
MechGorilla
MechGorilla 3 ヶ月 前
Loved this vid and somehow the comments are the most hilarious on JPvid. I was a physics major and I'm not surprised there aren't more arguments - this was like watching genius at work. These guys are legends. Just needs a brake. XD
Rick Cavallaro
Rick Cavallaro 3 ヶ月 前
We actually have two independent brakes in addition to the propeller pitch.
djwinger2003
djwinger2003 ヶ月 前
Great video! Really surprised me with the results. What I felt was missing here is more explanation into the design of the vehicle itself. For instance, how did they guarantee that the shape of the vehicle, coupled with its mass, would achieve the maximum wind speed? I was struggling to wrap my head around that because, at first, I thought if the vehicle was too heavy, the wind would struggle to push it and it would never achieve the same speed as the wind. Likewise, the aerodynamics of the vehicle would surely need to be just right. If too aerodynamic from the rear, there wouldn't be enough drag to push it forward. However, having thought more about it, I realised that it's much simpler. If the wind is strong enough to push it forward from a stopped position, it can inevitably continue to accelerate the vehicle until it reaches maximum wind speed. So in theory, the shape of the vehicle doesn't matter, so long as it can be moved forward from a stopped position (using only wind force). It would have been nice to have this bit explained in better detail. Still found it fascinating, though.
Creature of the Universe
It's not breaking the laws of physics, it's breaking the laws of understanding.
Nui Bui
Nui Bui 3 ヶ月 前
@BeastW2.0 science is a million times better than religion because we strive for facts and don't say sky daddy did that.
J
J 3 ヶ月 前
Best answer to this and most things in life. How many understand how a microwave oven works but use it without question. It heats food without heat and will only become hot from the heated food??? 🤯
BEAVIS elPastafarian
@BeastW2.0 (re: "science = 0, god =1") You're comparing apples to oranges. "Science is proof without certainty. Religion is certainty without proof." Science answers questions that can be proved or disproved by evidence. Religion answers the questions that science cannot. There is no overlap.
BEAVIS elPastafarian
@NuclearBolton (re: "... adds extra inertia ...") Isn't inertia a property of mass? So in order to have more inertia, wouldn't that require more mass? Inertia is the resistance to a change in velocity, no? The more inertia a body has, the harder it is to change that body's velocity It's been a while since I took Physics, but that was my understanding (which, of course, has at times been faulty).
Tes W/Senbet
Tes W/Senbet 6 ヶ月 前
I think, in the ground reference frame, the cart is accelerating to catch up with the wind ahead and extract energy. There is no violation of energy conservation. This is unlike a sail boat that cannot accelerate past the speed of the wind. So, from energy perspective, the kinetic energy (translational and rotational) of the cart is continuously increasing. However, in the reference frame of the wind, there is an apparent violation of energy conservation at first sight.
Lukas
Lukas 2 ヶ月 前
So cool that it doesn’t even need to be pushed to get going! Awesome documentary!
Robert Collins
Robert Collins 3 ヶ月 前
Mind blown I love this sort of experiment, well done to everyone involved.
Hezarth
Hezarth ヶ月 前
I get it now, Moving faster than a wind may sound like they breaking "law of energy conservation" But it is not, energy still conserve despite they exceed the speed This is my assumption based on what they explain If they use 90° sail sheet, the air pressure behind & front of the sheet will equalize 1:47 thus maintaining speed same as the wind (they considered as stationary, their speed already match the wind this point) But they use less than 90° propeller (consider as sail sheet) 7:03 This propeller (sail) spin & keep PREVENT the air pressure to equalize 18:57 Thus creating different air pressure behind the propeller (sail) (they also considered as stationary, because their speed start to match the wind this point) Since there is air pressure difference between the propeller (Sail) 18:57 Those pressure will try to equalize themselves back again (they considered as stationary, since their speed match the wind this point) Thus pushing them faster than the wind in order to compensate air pressure difference Due to the propeller efficiency, There will be a point where the air pressure difference would equalize eventually Basically, they just use the propeller to delay the air pressure from equalizing This is just my assumption, feel free to ignore or cricitized Because we both own each other nothing
Nightwolf
Nightwolf 2 ヶ月 前
I love this and the vehicle looks pretty cool being that sleek besides the prop. That with some mods would be a cool racer
Zack Comeau
Zack Comeau 8 ヶ月 前
The inventor must have been grinning so hard in that shot where he's holding the wind sock. Basically got the best shot possible with great equipment that he was right all along.
Nmotsch idontwannagivemyrealname
@gt gt The blades pitch angle was actually adjustable
gt gt
gt gt 7 ヶ月 前
@Ronald Mcdonald Hey.. thanks for the long reply... this video has lots of comments and they get lost. :) I clearly retracted my words on all my comments - this is not a fake. I missed the wings angle detail at 4:03. The angle of the wings is variable. So if you blow in that "fan" from behind (no wheels, no gears), it will still be able to rotate in both directions (clockwise and counter-clockwise), depenind on the angle of its wings. All fine, great mind-blowing :) project!
Ronald Mcdonald
Ronald Mcdonald 7 ヶ月 前
@gt gt I understand where you are coming from. However, I respectfully disagree in the fact that when you watch a bit more the gear had gotten stuck and not actually removed. You can also observe that there is a moment where it does in fact go the other way. I think that Veritasium has been supporting his arguments with the wrong facts, but I do believe that you are right if there are no wheels and gears it would spin in the other direction. Now, nothing in that video can be used to prove that there is or isn’t an is or isn’t an engine inside of the machine. I know that the theory works because I have made one of the small ones and used it in the wind. However I also found that there is a weight limit according to propeller size and wind speed. This limit has shown that at 10 mph winds that they were saying were healthy and what I’m guessing is a 15 foot propeller the weight limit is around 500lbs, which seems extremely improbable. On a small scale when you don’t need to make space for something to ride you can make something around a foot long and 8 inches tall that is around 6 ounces. It becomes a large problem when you need to scale it up that large. I do not think that they could use aluminum for something that size where it isn’t hollow. Personally, this seems fake to me. Until there is a video with a full build and some sort of proof behind the theory, I do not think that this would work with a human on that scale. I think it would also work with pine wood although it is not extremely sturdy which would explain the shaking. This is a theory that works and has been proven. Scale is the factor that matters, and potentially the honesty and integrity of the humans creating it. People are greedy and do a lot for clout and money. I don’t think that these people mean for that in any way, but nothing matters for now as long as it is a theory and not a law. (please excuse grammar and misspelling. I have typed this on a phone)
gt gt
gt gt 7 ヶ月 前
@Hugo B. Yup, as you noticed, I got that some time ago, thanks anyway :) I reviewed my affirmations and it's clearly doable
Sahil P
Sahil P 7 ヶ月 前
@notahotshot lmao you are proving yourself to be the most idiot person in this reply thread. The ribbon only detects the direction of relative wind. It has no relevance to the 'fan' (btw not a fan, just propellers spinning because of the wind) whatsoever.
David Mills
David Mills ヶ月 前
That's just AWESOME. I raced sailboats for years and know well how apparent wind works and how a boat does it so this was super cool.
Plastic Creations
Very well explained. I wasn't understanding until you gave your view on it. I'm wondering if a second propeller was added whether it would go even faster?
OpticalTrends
OpticalTrends ヶ月 前
Wow, I never thought about this particular propelling design... I just thought it was pretty basic and that I knew everything there was to be known on this matter, for both the theory of the wing and sailing... never occurred to me to integrate them into a single hybrid system... it's truly admirable. Great engineering architecture! my respects to the physicists who made it possible.
Paul Hodgson
Paul Hodgson ヶ月 前
Can u travel strait into the wind at the rubble wind speed.or can it not even move
Fiery Skipper
Fiery Skipper 2 ヶ月 前
You are so great. Thank you. Keep doing your do, your enthusiasm and love of science makes me glad.
The 8-Bit Guy
The 8-Bit Guy 7 ヶ月 前
So, from an energy perspective, this might be analogous to converting low volts/high amps into low amps/high volts. The higher voltage can run a motor faster, even if it has less power. But I have to admit, this contraption seems crazy.
bmurphy737
bmurphy737 5 ヶ月 前
@Jim Larsen I take it you’re not an engineer? If you were, you'd understand that frequently there are cases where the same analysis can be done in completely different domains, in this case electrical and mechanical. It’s a very useful way of helping to analyse, understand and explain a particular system. Incidentally, the are being pushed has no relevance whatsoever to how the cart travels faster than the wind. It only comes into play in getting it moving in the first place, its contribution to forward motion disappearing once it achieves the same speed as the wind. Gearing on the other hand is critical, which is why it is talked about.
Jim Larsen
Jim Larsen 5 ヶ月 前
Like all electronic technicians you make the logical conclusion with volts and amps. You demonstrate that to every man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail. I think the secret lies in the area being pushed by the wind and the gearing of the wheels which is not talked about. Having said that, I need to think about this some more.
bmurphy737
bmurphy737 5 ヶ月 前
@Tes W/Senbet OK, I understand the use of the phrase “catches up with the wind” now (sort of: I still think it confusing as the phrase “it always catches up with the wind ahead to extract energy” taken in isolation just sounds wrong). However, the cart doesn’t suddenly start using a different energy source once it hits wind speed: that’s simply the point at which the force of it being pushed along by the wind drops to zero. There are two separate forces causing the cart to move. Firstly, the force of the wind acting directly on the cart to push it along. At the start, when the cart is at rest relative to the ground, this is the only force causing it to move. The second force is that from the propeller, acting in the same way as the propeller of an aircraft. This starts at zero (as the propellor isn’t turning) and builds progressively as the cart speeds up from rest. As the same time as that force is building, the force of the wind acting directly on the cart falls away, until it is zero when the cart reaches wind speed. Once it is faster than the wind, the force from the propellor is the only one moving it forward (indeed, the force from the wind is now negative, tending to reduce its speed). The energy source for the propellor is the difference in relative speed of the cart with reference to the ground and the air (i.e. the kinetic energy of the wind relative to the ground). Remove that (i.e. the wind stops) and the car will just coast to a stop as frictional and drag forces cause it to slow and stop. I think a lot of the confusion is that saying the speed of the wind relative to the ground is the energy source immediately causes most people to assume that the blades are acting as a windmill and extracting the energy directly. They’re not: the energy is being extracted by the wheels as they are being turned. This is easier to grasp when looking at the treadmill model. Any reference frame can be used to analyse the system. The cart’s isn’t very useful, unless its just to look at the steady state once the cart is at its terminal velocity: as you point out, it’s not an inertial reference frame as the cart accelerates from rest. However, if you assume the wind is moving at a constant velocity with respect to the ground (and if you don’t assume that, the analysis gets very complicated), it doesn’t matter whether you use the wind or the ground reference frame: both are equally valid. If that wasn’t the case, you couldn’t say the model on the treadmill was the same system as the cart.
Tes W/Senbet
Tes W/Senbet 5 ヶ月 前
@bmurphy737 Once the cart starts moving faster than the wind, it always catches up with the wind ahead to extract energy. This answers the question: " where does the energy of the cart come from, once the cart starts moving faster than the wind?". So when I say "the cart catches up with the wind" I am referring to the case when cart velocity becomes greater than wind velocity. Yes, the ground (and all inertial reference frames) is the only correct reference frame. The cart reference frame and the wind reference frame cannot be used because they are not inertial. Having said this, I would say that this is a novel, mind blogging invention: the direction of rotation of the blades is unconventional. They are FORCED to turn in the direction opposite to if they were turned by the wind. The rotation rate is determined only by the speed of the cart and not directly related to the wind speed.
bmurphy737
bmurphy737 5 ヶ月 前
@Tes W/Senbet I don't understand what you mean by "the cart keeps catching up": it makes no sense to me. Your description with reference to the ground reference frame is correct. However it is not true to say it's the only reference frame that is correct. You can do an analysis from any reference frame and as long as you are consistent, it will be correct. This is how we know the model on the treadmill is an exactly equivalent system. There is an apparent paradox if you analyse with respect to the cart. In that case, it is transferring energy from the ground's motion to the cart by accelerating the air using the propeller. On the face of it, this contradicts the ground frame analysis, where the wind has to slow down. If you do the analysis correctly, though, you will see that both things can be true. The simplest way of doing this is to put some real numbers in. The key is to be consistent in analysing the forces involved.
Alex LT
Alex LT ヶ月 前
Could this be exemplified with a water tunnel by placing the model vehicle on geared tracks? (Would it show the low pressure behind the propellers?)
Paulo Gomes
Paulo Gomes 2 ヶ月 前
I'm still wrapping my head on how the energy is transfered from wind, to kinetic, to wheels, to prop and still have a positive energy yield.
Pavel Haninec
Pavel Haninec ヶ月 前
I think the way it works is the same as the example of the sail ships. If the props would have been straight, the Blackbird would go only ahead only as fast as the wind is. The reason it can go faster is the props are shaped like the sails. The wind isnt pushing the vehicle straightly but stronger to the side which is converted to the stronger thrust forwards.
Alex Agapov
Alex Agapov ヶ月 前
Absolutely love your curiosity and the project!
T33K3SS3LCH3N
T33K3SS3LCH3N 8 ヶ月 前
Damn the explanation with the two sailboats was amazing.
Peter Jørgensen
Peter Jørgensen 2 ヶ月 前
@Don Anders It can for a short time
Peter Jørgensen
Peter Jørgensen 2 ヶ月 前
Cool boat..It cant go on
hunt3rz.pokeng
hunt3rz.pokeng 7 ヶ月 前
@fatsquirrel75 I guess it's similar to how Airplanes of ww1 and ww2 works. The wing are on the top side is smooth and flat while the bottom side is slightly bulky towards the fronts. The theory is that wind that passes over top are at a constant speed while winds that passes towards the underside are restricted once they contact the from portion of the wing, but when they flow pass the bulky portion, they "slip" through the underside at a much faster rate than the top side, creating "lift." Sail boats are roughly the same with it's sails acting like wings.
Tom Torger
Tom Torger 7 ヶ月 前
@fatsquirrel75 @ windspeed: Seen from the boats perspective, there is still a wind, made by the rotary motion. You can use this wind to increase your speed.
kf
kf 7 ヶ月 前
CRETINS. Not a single mention of Daniel Bernoulli. If he saw this video 300 years after publishing “Hydrodynamics”, he would assume civilization collapsed and restarted from cave dwellers. CRETINS!
S G
S G ヶ月 前
This is really counterintuitive. The way I tried to explain it to myself was that the force of drag is less than the force of the wind pushing the vehicle, because the prop is sucking in some of the wind in front of it and pushing it out to the back. Now the wind is not only pushing against the vehicle’s frame, but it’s also pushing on the wind pushed backwards by the prop. Yet, the drag is only against the vehicle’s frame. Hence, F(net) = Wind + drag + (the drag converted into wind).
Gustavo Bittencourt
Gustavo Bittencourt 5 ヶ月 前
There's a small difference with a sail boat, It also combines hydrodynamics (should have pointed that out). Great video. It was awesome to tackle that controversial problem and solve it!
Phillip Batho
Phillip Batho ヶ月 前
Here's how I see it. It's effectively getting the "push" of a large sail, without the surface area resistance that would keep it from going faster than the wind.
Glaz Darklee
Glaz Darklee 5 ヶ月 前
I love this! It took me a while to understand it, (and I have a MS in physics) but the analogy with tacking sailboats helps. In a way, this whole thing reminds me of the anecdote about how Feynman was stymied by how the so-called "reverse sprinkler" works. In other words, different reference points have a long-history of befuddling us.
Tony M.
Tony M. 8 ヶ月 前
This broke my mind until you showed the sail boats in a cylindrical world. The creator explained it the best way, your addition of the animation helped tremendously. 👍🏼
robotgymnastics
robotgymnastics 7 ヶ月 前
Here's my take on this. It contains some pitfalls in calculations towards zero and infinity. If you think of that cart moving with the same speed of the wind, ideally with no friction and free rolling wheels, "nothing is really happening", like a satellite in orbit, but the time you decide to use another "stationary" object (in relation to the cart, the ground in this case), as an anchor for energy transfer, you can suddenly harvest the kinetic energy. By using the ground as an anchor point for a leverage, you are able to exchange the movement of the wind (relative to ground) in order to get a higher speed yourself. Let's say you have a similar case with an electric wind turbine, with generators connected to the wheels, all with 99,999% efficiency, and very little surface area catching the wind other than the prop. You can decide in what direction you want the prop to face the wind. If the prop moves "with the wind", it would almost be standing still. BUT, if you change the prop 180 degrees, you can use that "anchor force" to go faster than the wind, except for the wind that's pushed by the prop in the other direction. "With an anchor point, you can sacrifice movement of the air for a greater speed yourself". There will be a "sweet spot" in the ratio between prop "air blockage" and the rest of the structure, so I guess the speed increase almost ideally would be ^2. Correct me if I'm wrong. Note that I'm not writing 100% efficiency and not zero air blockage by the rest of the structure, because then it's impossible to make calculations as it reaches zero or infinity. Example: infinite efficiency of the wheel generators will require zero movement for generating a frictionless movement of the prop, propelling the same amount of air as the wind is blowing. Pheew.
Fernando A. Calzzani Junior
@Joe Mama BUT at the point in which the wind reverts in front of the blades, there is resistance. It is just matter of equilibrium as there is no such thing as a "perpetual motion machine", unless there is no energy flow.
Karl with a K
Karl with a K 8 ヶ月 前
@nathan nyhus This is all 11 grade physics. I am not seeing what all the confusion was.
Rick Cavallaro
Rick Cavallaro 8 ヶ月 前
@Star Traveler it must be very sophisticated since we seem to have fooled the Guinness world record folks, the North American Land Sailing association, Derek, and now plenty of physics and aero professors and professionals.
Tetraedri_
Tetraedri_ 8 ヶ月 前
@danR Dereck's explanation is also correct, although the delivery was confusing. In a nutshell, it says that if we accept that the vehicle can move at the speed of wind, then it should also be able to move faster than wind. And the reason why this is not a perpetual motion machine is that the relative velocity of the wind and the ground is crucial. More technically, the angular velocity of the blade is mechanically coupled to the relative motion between ground and the vehicle. From the ground's frame of reference, whenever the vehicle is traveling slower than wind, the wind pushes the vehicle in its direction. The only friction against this movement is between ground and the tires, while the rotation of the blade through the mechanical coupling actually reduces drag. As long as the reduction of drag by the blades can overcome friction, the vehicle can move at the speed of wind and even exceed it, which can be easily seen from the winds reference frame. Not sure if this helped, but I tried my best :D
jack the ripper
jack the ripper ヶ月 前
Nice video!! yeah, imagine if you standing on a skateboard and infront of you is a wall if you push the wall with your arms you go away from the wall you get speed no longer standing still in this car thing the wind gets you to wind speed you and the wind move at same time same speed the wind behind you is basicly a wall, the fan powerd by the wheel powerd by the wind is basicly pushing the wall so you go faster
Augusto De Melo
Augusto De Melo ヶ月 前
It makes lots of sense. It is very well explained, especially when compared with the sailboats. Congratulations! I really enjoyed it.
kenny Murphy
kenny Murphy ヶ月 前
I wonder if this can apply to traveling past light speed 🤔
Ignacio Ribuffo
Ignacio Ribuffo 5 ヶ月 前
Great video as always. Everyone seems to be discussing whether it should work or not, but no one asks the why. Any discussion on what good real world appliances for this "invention"?
Sarah Bezold
Sarah Bezold 8 ヶ月 前
this is going to become a trick problem on a physics exam.
Choco Latte
Choco Latte 6 ヶ月 前
Haha. I’m glad I’m out of college (class of 1980). I could not get this one right. Although, we did plenty of force balance problems. It is one of the most useful starting points of statics and dynamics problems. You just would have to identify all the forces, their vectors and how to calculate each one. On second thought, maybe I could do this problem. But I’m too old and not interested enough to try. 😁. Cheers.
Jacob
Jacob 6 ヶ月 前
@Papa Legbayes lets continue the discussion
Papa Legba
Papa Legba 6 ヶ月 前
@wouterdobbelaere yeah it proves UCLA is a worthless establishment.
wouterdobbelaere
wouterdobbelaere 6 ヶ月 前
@Papa Legba have you seen his new video on the topic?
Peter Tang
Peter Tang 7 ヶ月 前
@PL2 So you're another one of those people who thinks that 5 is larger than 10? I can easily draw the free body diagram that shows exactly how it works, and unlike you, actually know what a free body diagram is. In fact, I already have verbally done so in a previous reply in this chain. BS'ing phrases with technical terms in them doesn't make you any smarter, when it's so obvious that you don't know what any of those words mean. The fact that you're thinking I'm pushing a free energy device just proves that your reading comprehension is worse than that of a 3 year old.
Gordon McLean
Gordon McLean 3 ヶ月 前
I was thinking this is like an aerodynamic version of a counter weight. There need only be a small difference between the forward motion and the tail wind to extract enough energy to over come the rolling friction and the aerodynamic loss from prop inefficiency. Since both thurst and aerodynamic drag are produced from the same forward motion , the absolute speed is almost irrelevant; like the mass of two counterweights. As long as they're almost equal, even a small force is enough of a kick start and get things moving. Eventually dynamic equilibrium will be reached where the differential speed (forward speed minus tailwind) across the prop does not produce enough energy to balance rapidly increasing " air speed squared" prop inefficiency.
Gab Aroundtheworld
I'm a moron in physic, I just can't get math and "complicated" physic and I'm lazy to read for hours. Now my question (it would have been made if possible I guess) Would a propeller sail boat work?
Bobby Israel
Bobby Israel ヶ月 前
It is possible under the right circumstances to blow your own sail. The Mythbusters episode: Blowing Your Own Sail proved this. Season 9 Episode 6.
Nicolas Coulange
Nicolas Coulange ヶ月 前
I guess not because you need the forces of the wheels to drive the propeller. But if you have a propeller in the water and one in the air... Maybe. I don't know.
slep
slep 2 ヶ月 前
Veritasium in an alternate universe: Prolonging My Life to Start a Physics Debate
SovietandScotsman
SovietandScotsman 3 ヶ月 前
So, in the 4 months since I first saw this video, I've obviously had this information, and the physical mechanism behind it brewing of sorts in my mind. This didn't make any sense in my head when I first watched it, and got the information from it. I didn't refute it, because I'm not one to nay-say something I don't understand, but I know I left in awe of what I saw. This video essentially implanted the core fundamentals of how this phenomenon works, and my mind worked passively to subconsciously understand it. Obviously I didn't get a notification that my brain finally understood it, but I came into this video with a wildly different experience of it. I came into it going "yeah, that makes sense. And thus, this other part makes sense now too." I dunno. I expect this is an inverse mental trick as to what nostalgia is, where the brain experiences something causing an active memory, then changes, subtly, how you experience everything else, convincing itself that the memory was somehow much better than what it was. However, for this, it wasn't conscious. It was completely out of my mind until I started watching again, and, suddenly, I knew what was being said. There wasn't a "click", or a eureka moment, just... An understanding.
iamnorwegian
iamnorwegian 7 ヶ月 前
That cylindrical earth argument was something really elegant and beautiful.
Shworn
Shworn 3 ヶ月 前
@Randell Reimer picture two boats next to eachother. Now imagine both start cutting through the wind, but in opposite direction. Now imagine you “tie” those boats together at the start. No both sails are cutting through the wind, but in opposite directions, but because they are together, they push the connected boars in the direction of the wind. Obviously, the water would cause a lot of resistance in that scenario, that is why this car uses wheels on land.
Kevin Hodgson
Kevin Hodgson 7 ヶ月 前
@Scoobacca152 This expansion deserves way more than 7 upvotes.
Wabash15
Wabash15 7 ヶ月 前
I agree.
stevebean1234
stevebean1234 7 ヶ月 前
@BremenSA yea I just said theoretically bc i don’t know what the inefficiencies are like on the vehicle. The answer to your question lies in that, as well. If friction weren’t an issue, then the turbine would harvest energy from the wind and begin driving the vehicle.
BremenSA
BremenSA 7 ヶ月 前
@stevebean1234 Not even theoretical, they have in fact used this car to drive upwind according to Wikipedia. I wonder if they had to start downwind and turn or it actually started moving into the wind from a dead stop, though.
Dakota Combs
Dakota Combs ヶ月 前
Ever since I was in middle school and spinner rim were popular I asked myself why can’t we power a car by wind. I even asked my high school science teacher and he said it not possible. I’m glad to see someone has found it out in some manner. Maybe a more driveable version will be possible down the road
0percentBS
0percentBS ヶ月 前
When we were studying mechanical engineering our team won a competition with a model of a similar vehicle.
Pieter Kock
Pieter Kock 4 ヶ月 前
not sure where to reach you Derek! amazing videos you make... I was wondering if you could make a video about if soft fruit and vegetables (like strawberries or peaches) that are treated with insecticides are healthy or not. So, is the fruit or vegetable with rests of poison on it after you washed it still worth eating because of the benefits the fruit or vegetable has? Is bio fruit that is not treated with poison significantly healthier in that way? Just wondering :)
Mr.Scootini
Mr.Scootini ヶ月 前
Now I wanna see this implemented on a “sail” boat.
Joel Creates
Joel Creates 8 ヶ月 前
Sort of like inducing current from the environment then converting it to a higher voltage, love it!
PhalanxLord
PhalanxLord 8 ヶ月 前
The way I see it is that the wind and the ground are your two rails, the propeller is the load, and the force it generates is the current. The propeller spins due to the difference in potential energy between the ground and the wind and when the propeller spins it grabs air and pushes it behind it to do work. It's hard to get your head around it at first, but it feels surprisingly simple once you do.
Snap-off
Snap-off 8 ヶ月 前
Yeah like a boost converter.
Alex C
Alex C 8 ヶ月 前
Actually it made me think of a negative impedance. How can you extract energy by trying to supply it? If the load has a negative resistance, you can
B L
B L 8 ヶ月 前
@saifeddine ALOUI It does seem that the gains are higher then the loss which makes me wonder if this does work as such how to apply it to create electricity?
EVENTERESTING
EVENTERESTING 8 ヶ月 前
In simple terms, boosting the conserved energy and then using it.
Yusuf S.
Yusuf S. 5 ヶ月 前
Wonderful video and your input made it much clearer in my head. Here' s my question though, can this be applied to a ship!!? I get it that the propeller mechanism should be attached to a surface thrusting force(a wheel in this example) but can we just gear the wind harnessed propeller to a sub water propeller and achive the same effectiveness?
eyytee
eyytee 5 ヶ月 前
You would need a turbine in the water, but it will never be as efficient as the wheeled vehicle.
Mark Eisenbraun
Mark Eisenbraun ヶ月 前
So many great moments in this video, but I gotta say I like the ending the best. "You can push the button now." (Huge smile)
bradley hall
bradley hall 4 ヶ月 前
It actually kinda makes sense to me, every action has an equal and opposite reaction no matter how minut
RyanGoFast
RyanGoFast ヶ月 前
Soooo, air resistance powers the fan? And the fan relays the energy to the wheels to make them go faster due to energy gained from the fan pushing air against air traveling in the same direction
John Borton
John Borton ヶ月 前
Just the opposite -- the rotor blades never power the wheels. The wheels power the blades.
Alec Malisheski
Alec Malisheski 7 ヶ月 前
Experiments made out of spite to prove people wrong is the best kind of science
xUNHEILv SNIPEZx
xUNHEILv SNIPEZx ヶ月 前
It's the same in the computer science world too, ever hear of a series called half life? Made because... it couldn't be done...
Nightwolf
Nightwolf 2 ヶ月 前
Correct
drienkm
drienkm 3 ヶ月 前
Correct True, it's a bit childish, but somehow it still feels right. Something about caring deeply. The important part I think is remaining humble enough to learn from defeat - Peruse the glory of victory but make peace with the possibility that the other may be about to teach you something. Respect each other as a default.
Simon Dowsett
Simon Dowsett 3 ヶ月 前
Dueling with science, bitch!
Joe
Joe 7 ヶ月 前
correct. He did it just because they told him it couldn't be done. My kinda guy.
Mohamed abdallh
Mohamed abdallh 2 ヶ月 前
i think we need to perform the same experiment on large scale in the sea and maybe this will revolutionize wind sailing
Christian A. Pertuz
Christian A. Pertuz 4 ヶ月 前
I studied something really different from physics. But I really love to understand how things works in this world and physics is a big help for that, physics is mindblowing.
Cosmicman50
Cosmicman50 3 ヶ月 前
from my understanding, once it reaches (the arbitrary number 10 mph/kph) the propeller is basically "pulling" the air from in front of it like how a fan pulls in air that it blows out the other end. thats why the wind behind it is slightly slower.
dannooooooo
dannooooooo 5 ヶ月 前
it really warms my heart to see how many academics are challenging long held beliefs in the scientific community. It's upsetting though, to see how harsh people are when a new idea is proposed, calling him basically a lying charlatan. this is an incredible feat. but WHY THE F is there no protection over the driver to but a barrier between them and this massive propeller, lol.
Maloxi
Maloxi 7 ヶ月 前
That's it Derek, you settled the debate: *I'm a Cylindrical Earther now.*
Syauqi Lintang
Syauqi Lintang 5 ヶ月 前
*those people lied to me* *the earth isnt flat* *the earth isnt either* *the earth is a cylindrical! * :o
Dr. Pushkok Ph.D Oral Joint Replacement
@Paul Polster A vague insult like that means you're either you're physically 12 years old, or mentally 12 years old. Vague insults don't work on people with IQs above room temperature. If you can rub two brain cells together and formulate more specific questions, I'd be happy to converse like an adult back to you.
Paul Polster
Paul Polster 5 ヶ月 前
@Dr. Pushkok Ph.D Oral Joint Replacement dude, you're dmb af
Lisandro Lorea
Lisandro Lorea 6 ヶ月 前
What's NASA hiding at the bases?
Dr. Pushkok Ph.D Oral Joint Replacement
@Simon Multiverse Naturally YT stopped notifying me replies for this conversation. Do they do that to you? _"They can easily fly directly over the North pole, and they do all the time"_ ---- Not the direct center. Look at the maps on the article titled "polar-routes-flights-that-go-over-earths-poles" on the "interesting engineering" website. Plus why are you acting like this tidbit is the entire basis or most of the basis of the belief? Also do you have no comment about why NASA live feed cameras ALWAYS cut out when going directly over the poles? Don't act like that tidbit is the entire basis the belief. Watch "Jan Lamprecht - NEXUS conference 2003" which is a great 1 hr presentation on YT, and read his book "Hollow Planets". The full book is expensive but there is a PDF version that appears to be abridged.
Trey Dempsey
Trey Dempsey 5 ヶ月 前
I would love to see this reproduced in a water tank. I'm guessing it would work too, provided the car was heavy enough to have good traction with the ground.
CorvetteTrev
CorvetteTrev 24 日 前
I'd love to see this on water, make the wheels into rotating gear ⚙ paddles
Fastigio Ardua
Fastigio Ardua 2 ヶ月 前
If we consider the speed of the wind as the voltage on a circuit and amount of the air mass pushes the wings of the turbine as the currency; We could theoretically assume that the physical work here equals to the total change of the energy of this vehicle through its route direction. As in the circuit sample, the work equals to the multiplication of the volt and the currency, and this result is also equals to the power (watt) (currency is actually divided with time) What that means is, the power (watt) result here means the ability of doing work and change the systems energy on time scale, its the majority of your total ability to do work in short. So you can see here in this dessert we can accept the total currency (the amount of the air mass pushes the wind turbines wings) can be told limitless, comparing the amount you can can ever use on the wings with the winds total air mass pressure. So if you have bigger wings, you have bigger capacity (watt) and you can use this power to move even faster with your mechanism. Now here in this video the mechanism is a little bit different then my wind mile sample but the mentality is the same. The the result is " The velocity of the car can be much bigger then the winds speed. But the energy that was used for this cart to move on its direction can never be bigger then the energy that was provided by the wind." Even if you exclude the whole energy losses. This is the physics law, Thermodinamic energy conservation is. Physics never told that you can't get faster from a source that supplies you energy with its velocity.
Alma Guapa - Sailboat live aboard epiphany
What I see being more proof that it really works is despite the « shakiness » in the prototype car it gets to go faster than wind.
Zonuntluanga Hmar
Zonuntluanga Hmar 8 ヶ月 前
When your online argument with random people is so heated you ended up building a vehicle that seems to defy logic....
Menno Lente
Menno Lente 7 ヶ月 前
@TrueHelpTV Well I'm not very biased, I really don't care if someone agrees with me or not. All I see is intelligent people blinded by fanboyism on one end of the spectrum, and equally intelligent naysayers, with little in between. Can't we just find a middle ground and all agree that we can't say for certain, because we have insufficient data?
TrueHelpTV
TrueHelpTV 7 ヶ月 前
@Menno Lente appreciate the only open minded rebuttal i've yet to receive.. Everyone else is just like "no, becuase he said so" and im like.. notice how they make all these claims without any measuring instruments and think how electricity works for scale tests." cheers
Menno Lente
Menno Lente 7 ヶ月 前
@TrueHelpTVAlthough I do agree that these methods seem a little crude, the scale model looks actually legit.
Bukoden
Bukoden 7 ヶ月 前
@A Measuring speed of wind was done throughout, and measuring the speed of the vehicle was done (at other times, if not also that day). Statement of making a record of 2.8 times wind speed at 19:49 was mentioned.
Bhu Sor
Bhu Sor 7 ヶ月 前
@James H that guy wasn't a flat earther. He's known for building DIY rockets but figured he could pretend to be one to make flat earthers fund his little hobby.
Matthias Kossidowski
extremely sweet work you did there. My Respect for the ballsy attitude :D
Sea wolves
Sea wolves 5 日 前
OK this works! Next question: How fast can we get with this if we built a stronger vehicle? :D
Ron Huffman
Ron Huffman ヶ月 前
Congratulations! Great subject, I’m subscribing and telling my friends!
Krishna Bhelau
Krishna Bhelau 4 ヶ月 前
So there're two concepts involved as I've understood, 1. The Gear Ratios; 2. The sails, wind, lift, and resultant force... Why can't we isolate them? Can we just mount propeller on independent cart if that's enough to make us go faster than wind?
arachnophilia
arachnophilia 8 ヶ月 前
i was following this internet debate like 15 years ago, when it spanned three different message boards, including 30 maxed out threads at talk rational. i can't believe it's still going on. that fight was BRUTAL
Paul Mackilligin
Paul Mackilligin 7 ヶ月 前
@Chris Bode The way I see it is simpler than that. I see a wind-blown object with very little ground friction moving at wind speed downwind. Relative to the wind it is stationary. So far it is like any other wind-blown object on wheels. But the difference between this and any other cart that this one now has a fan at the back, pushing air backwards relative to the cart. The fan happens to be driven by the wind via the wheels, but it will behave in just the same way as a cart with a fan that is powered by a motor, i.e. it will accelerate forwards relative to the wind. And then as it speeds up the fan also speeds up, pushing it faster and faster.
Paul Mackilligin
Paul Mackilligin 7 ヶ月 前
@Ben Jamin' Different point. Going upwind you need to use the blades as a turbine to drive the wheels. That's much easier to achieve, although you probably won't go upwind very fast. Going downwind you use the wheels to drive the propeller.
First name Last name
@Cosmological Turtle Newton's 3rd law: For every force there is an equal and opposite force. The propeller is a fan pushing the wind backwards - therefore the wind *must* exert and equal and opposite force on the prop (forwards). The cart is moving faster than the wind, but the prop is a neat "trick" which enables the wind to still push forwards on something. The trick only works if the prop is spinning fast enough. The ground forces the wheels to turn, and the wheels force the prop to turn. Note that the wheels drag against the ground, trying to slow the cart down. The prop makes the wind slow down (releative to the ground). When the wind slows down it loses kinetic energy. That energy *must* go somewhere. The only place for the energy to go is into the cart. It can be hard to understand how that happens without doing the physics calculations, but what happens is that the energy "helps" improve how much thrust the prop can generate. The wheels try to slow the cart down, the prop tries to speed the cart up, and the wind-energy helps the prop. The prop wins. The wind "bounces" off of the prop, pushing the cart faster.
Willem M
Willem M 7 ヶ月 前
@PhalanxLord It's even easier if you imagine what happens if you push against the pedal of a bicycle (in the down position) while you're not on it. The pedal will move forward at speed X, but the bicycle will move forward faster than that, because the pedal will be moving backwards relative to the bicycle.
PhalanxLord
PhalanxLord 7 ヶ月 前
@Star Traveler Yeah, it's not a second source of energy. It was late at night and I explained it badly. What it does do is it allows the cart to take more energy from the wind then it would otherwise and to generate a second force to push it. The wind has so much energy and mass that if it's moving quickly enough that it can move the cart at its speed even with the additional energy being used to spin the propeller. Throwing out random numbers with a gross simplification, let's say the wind had 10,000KJ of kinetic energy. The cart requires 1000KJ to be pushed at the same velocity as the wind with the propeller chain detached, and the propeller chain uses 100J to spin he propeller so now the cart would use 1100J of energy from the wind. The wind, however, still has so much kinetic energy that it doesn't care. It will give the cart that extra 100J of energy. While some of that energy is dissipated against the ground and the gears due to friction a lot of it is used to turn the propeller which then uses it to generate an additional push. So now you have a cart with the wind generating whatever force is needed to push the cart at the wind's speed acting on the cart and a second force due to the propeller based on the difference in speed between the ground and the cart. This will cause the cart to continue to accelerate until this second force is canceled by drag and fiction. An easier to imagine equivalent would be a cart with a pole on it pushing against a moving wall. The cart is rigged with a device that will extend the pole based on its speed. As the wall moves, the pole extends, pushing it further from the wall and causing it to move faster than the wall is. The wall is the wind, the pole is the propeller. All of the energy is from the wall, but the cart is taking more than it needs to go at the same speed as the wall and is using it to accelerate. Conservation of energy is retained as all of the energy is still coming from the wall, it's just that the cart is able to take more of it then it otherwise would be able to.
Michael Alexander
Michael Alexander 5 ヶ月 前
hey, I wonder if the same concept could be used for light? I mean the light as the wind, surrounding matters as the ground or something like that. if so is it possible to move faster than light? Just curious. haha
Bill Kingsland
Bill Kingsland 26 日 前
Could this be used somehow to increase the efficiency of wind turbines?
محمد نعمت پور
Your channel really makes my day and boost my motivations
Bob Smith
Bob Smith 2 日 前
Yo this is so sick! When you actually understand how it works, it is actually really cool. It's also like the only Veritasium video I actually understand.
Bob Smith
Bob Smith 日 前
@K____ R____ I think of it like the wind gives the vehicle a little speed boost, causing the wheels to turn and them to spin the propeller, and because the vehicle is so light, without the propeller it goes around windspeed, so with the propeller it will go even faster. At least, that’s my way of thinking about it
K____ R____
K____ R____ 日 前
But can it go UPWIND?
Louis Gerber
Louis Gerber 8 ヶ月 前
As a sailor and physicist, the only one thing, that drives me crazy about this is that I didn't have this idea myself. The cylinder earth is brilliant!
Shworn
Shworn 3 ヶ月 前
@Eagleizer picture two boats next to eachother. Now imagine both start cutting through the wind, but in opposite direction. Now imagine you “tie” those boats together at the start. No both sails are cutting through the wind, but in opposite directions, but because they are together, they push the connected boars in the direction of the wind. Obviously, the water would cause a lot of resistance in that scenario, that is why this car uses wheels on land.
Shworn
Shworn 3 ヶ月 前
@Eagleizer first of all, the cylindrical earth and spiral is spacetime relative to the centre of the propellor. So it is showing us the postion of the boats / propellors in spacetime, not in 3 dimensions. Secondly, think. You know a sail boat can travel faster than the wind by (for simplicity) cutting 45 degrees tangent to the direction of the wind. If you have a propellor going in the direction of the wind, all you need is another propellor (sail boat) that is following the other 45 degree line tangent to the direction of the wind, and now they push the propellor in the direction of the wind (the middle of the positive and negative tangent), but at the same speed as a sailboat cutting through the wind.
GBLynden's RC
GBLynden's RC 7 ヶ月 前
Agreed man! I feel the same way as an RC Guy.
Jeremy Stanger
Jeremy Stanger 7 ヶ月 前
​@Wary of Extremes You won't disagree that the airflow over the fan generates the power, and if your claim is correct, the telltale shows the airflow over the fan. I claim the telltale shows the airflow over the car (not that those two air flows are in any way independent of each other). Either way, the telltale proves that the apparent wind speed over the fan reverses, which is exactly what the video claims. There is no perpetual motion because there is a power source (the wind), and when the power source is removed, the car stops. What proof of speed would you actually accept?
Jeremy Stanger
Jeremy Stanger 7 ヶ月 前
@Wary of Extremes the fan is too high up to have a significant effect on the air flow around the tell-tale. They could show the reading on the car's speedo or the reading on an anemometer, but I doubt you would trust that either.
E Mu
E Mu 5 ヶ月 前
Discovered your channel a few weeks ago. Great content.
To_B_Irish Live
To_B_Irish Live ヶ月 前
Very clever stuff, it be okay to understand if you ever cut the wind on a sail boat. Sailors will understand this so will pilots, Sailors are used to sailing on the edge and know very well if they steer into the wind that the boat will slow and stop. Sails are designed to cut the wind and in the video they talk about a sail being a vertical wing. The fact that the props are rotating anticlockwise also suggests that the props are cutting the wind and pushes the craft forward. I'm not sure if this would be practical on a water craft unless you can have a big enough catamaran or trimaran so the prop is not flipping around in the waves. As I said an impractical propulsion system although the science or Physics behind it would of course work. Can the vehicle tack as the wind has a mind of its own? Could you imagine one or many of these on the road, the roads would need 15foot lanes. Thurley enjoyable
John Huebner
John Huebner 3 ヶ月 前
There has to be a limit that this device will go based on oncoming (forward) wind resistance. Basically, it can go no faster than a typical sail version.
John Borton
John Borton 3 ヶ月 前
A traditional sail equipped rig cannot even reach windspeed steady state when traveling directly downwind. The Blackbird can maintain speeds of ~3x the speed of the wind in the same situation.
Warbringercb
Warbringercb 5 ヶ月 前
Very cool. Has anyone done the math on how efficiently you can convert that kinetic energy into potential energy? I.e. going up an incline?
rugbyf0rlife
rugbyf0rlife 7 ヶ月 前
The way the creator explained the prop mechanic of a "cylindrical earth" is mindblowing, and that kind of out of the box thinking is the mark of a genius.
lx
lx 2 ヶ月 前
honestly, it was a pretty showoffy explanation. it is creative, but it doesnt accurately model what was happening.
Voor Naam
Voor Naam 7 ヶ月 前
High time to escape your box, dude. Get out more! A genius? Hahahahahahahahaha.
someting
someting 7 ヶ月 前
That's the most stupid thing in this fake video. You kids really do believe anything you see huh.
Josh Peace
Josh Peace 7 ヶ月 前
@Avry Wilson a simple Google search tells me that you are lying. Years of research and practical applications have proven it is possible.
Markus S
Markus S 7 ヶ月 前
And yet is has nothing to do at all with how that vehicle actually works ;)
Aaniranjan Saraf
Aaniranjan Saraf ヶ月 前
imagine this tech could be used in Flying Machines
Bin Zhu
Bin Zhu 5 ヶ月 前
Question then, is there a theoretical limit of how much faster this can go along the wind?
James Williamson
James Williamson 10 日 前
Well done and good teamwork. I think that was one of my quotes you used. It goes to show the importance as Einstein inferred of being able to explain to a child.
James Williamson
@Rick Cavallaro 9:08 I am guessing it was the first Disquss account I ever made.
Rick Cavallaro
Rick Cavallaro 7 日 前
Which quote, and where is it in the video?
Steven Russo
Steven Russo 3 ヶ月 前
Derek - "How do I slow down?" Guys that built the machine - "Either push this thing forward or backward, but we're not really sure" *Derek has left the chat*
John Borton
John Borton 3 ヶ月 前
// "Guys that built the machine ..."// Actually, that was the guy who build the machine vs the guy who didn't build the machine. Guess who was right.
CMZ neu
CMZ neu 8 ヶ月 前
The sailboats around a tube explanation is genius!
Muhammad B Rusyda
Muhammad B Rusyda 7 ヶ月 前
@British Knight aka MiniNinja1 yeah, mistook your example, thought North was the direction of the boat, That's why I've rewritten it to parallel and perpendicular to make it easier
British Knight aka MiniNinja1
@Muhammad B Rusyda the example was a North wind. A wind only blowing directly and purely North. No Eastward component. Is this a language problem or are you just stupid? Given that you don't know the difference between a wing and a sailboat sail, I'm leaning towards stupid. A wing works by making the air above the wing travel a greater distance than the wind under the wing. That's not how sails work. As everyone but you noticed, the sailboats would be an example of a windmill - sail blades pushed directly by the wind to create a rotational force. But the propeller used in the video is the exact opposite, using the rotational force of the wheels, through gearing, to turn the propeller as a push-fan, blowing AGAINST the wind.
Muhammad B Rusyda
Muhammad B Rusyda 7 ヶ月 前
@British Knight aka MiniNinja1 in case you're still confused. Even when the sailboat and the wind have the same parallel velocity components, there's still an perpendicular relative velocity component according to the sailboat, since the sailboat moves at an angle to the wind. Using the principle of an air foil, this perpendicular wind can be used to further produce parallel thrust pushing the sailboat to speed higher than the wind speed even in the parallel direction.
Muhammad B Rusyda
Muhammad B Rusyda 7 ヶ月 前
@British Knight aka MiniNinja1 no, thrust in the northward direction due to wind in the eastward direction by the same principle of airplane wings that produces upward lift from horizontal wind.
British Knight aka MiniNinja1
@Muhammad B Rusyda there is no thrust being produced in the eastward direction except by the sail from the Northward wind. Seriously, you are making a fool of yourself right now. Look it up, ask a friend, or just read some books.
Machine Elf
Machine Elf 4 ヶ月 前
I was eventually able to get it by reading the “styrofoam block” analogy in the description. It really wasn’t clear in the video to me that the wind is blowing THE VEHICLE not the propellor. Anyone still confused that’s what made it come together.
eyytee
eyytee 4 ヶ月 前
"the wind is blowing THE VEHICLE not the propellor" It's blowing on both. Even without the body drag it could self-start downwind. Look at "DDWFTTW - Prop or Turbine" around 6:00.
Silly-Plus
Silly-Plus 29 日 前
Yo this was mind blowing, pun intended. Absolutely fascinating. 💯 🙌
Jonathan Kirwan
Jonathan Kirwan ヶ月 前
This is really exceptional... Great job
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